Gálaniitoluodda
Aangesluit op 22 September 2011
Jongste opmerking: 5 jaar gelede deur SpesBona in onderwerp Afrikaans in Europa
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Hello and welcome. Sorry for writing in English, but I don't know Norwegian, and you clearly state you don't know Afrikaans either.
My question: you are 16 years old, Finnish is your native tongue, it is compulsory to study Swedish in Finland, right? Norway doesn't border Finland, except way, way, way up in the Arctic, so... Norwegian... How? Does (one of) your parent(s) speak Norwegian as native tongue? Just interested. Suidpunt (kontak) 06:32, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you! No problem, English is all right. But just so you know, even though I'm unable to write Afrikaans without using a dictionary and double-checking different grammar stuff all the time, it's actually surprisingly easy for me to understand quite a bit of (written) Afrikaans due to the similarities with Norwegian, English (and German). So if you'd prefer to write in Afrikaans instead of English it's all right for me. There will of course be some words I won't understand at first, however, it's always possible for me to look them up in a dictionary.
To the actual point: Yeah, Swedish is compulsory for all Finnish students, but the grammar and the words are very different from Finnish so we are still working on the basics of Swedish. For instance, writing an article like the one about Oulu in Swedish with correct grammar would be very difficult for most of my classmates. The reason why I'm very good at Norwegian is that my family lived in Norway for 6 years (from 2011 to 2017). You might also have noticed the sme-3 (redlink) on my user page, which is the Northern Saami language that I also learned while living in Norway. When I was learning Northern Saami back in 2011–2013 I spent a lot of time on the Northern Saami Wikipedia, which actually may have helped me a little in learning the language. Since 2014 I've been quite inactive on all language versions of Wikipedia though. --Gálaniitoluodda (kontak) 20:45, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, the taalbad (language bath; meaning "language immersion") still works best. I remember back in 2005 how an English pupil from Cape Town moved to our rural community in the Overberg. Now, without being too much subjective, I believe the English, like the French, are not always willing to learn a new language. To the European mind, this is incomprehensible, but fact. And, Cape Town is an island of English speakers (or, those who are willing to speak English), surrounded by a sea of predominantly Afrikaans and Xhosa speakers [the rural community].
- He couldn't speak a word Afrikaans and was totally lost, his marks/grades dropped, because we have a parallel medium school. But then he started to scateboard with a number of Afrikaans pupils, just for fun, and sooner than you think, he asked me one day to check his Afrikaans homework. No problems at all. I was 15 years old back then, and so was he. Although, like most English pupils [like the French in Flanders], he still didn't speak a word Afrikaans, he was more informed and much more confident. And so, his marks increased as well.
- The language politics of the South African school and university curriculum, regarding (foreign) languages, is something that I don't want to talk about - I wrote too much about that already, e.g. Duits as vreemde taal and Latynonderrig. I was only taught Afrikaans and English at school - and that's it.
- If I were a Fin, I would perhaps flip a coin. On the one hand, you have Swedish, on the other, you have Russian. That is a pickle. At the moment Russian is of much more value to me [and the books are dirt cheap!], on the other hand - I don't know what Swedish has to offer. I've never liked Swedish, though.
- Actually, I've started to learn Danish (it has some resemblences of Dutch), but stopped, because I've read a blog of an American. She said: learn German first, then Danish. I was hesistant at first (everyone scares you with how difficult German is - until you discover it is mostly the English themselves!), but after seeing a clip from The Lion King in German, I thought: "What took you so long?! German is the language of a prince!" And I've never looked back ever since.
- But learning Afrikaans from Finland, is like someone trying to teach himself Hebrew without a Jew in sight, Latin without a Roman/Catholic priest/professor, and Russian - oh, that would be me! OK, my Russian neighbour is absent six months of the year. All the last languages have three things in common: mystique, "somewhat" [but not always!] predictable pronunctiation, and STRUCTURE.
- I do translate information (that I like) terribly slow from French, but I don't like French necessarily. It has lost its mystique and appeal to the horde! ;)
- But the problem is - once you've learned German [for reading, watching, and listening purposes, at least], suddenly Danish fades to a mere shadow. From German, you have access to all the other languages. The Germans are almost obsessed with Latin, so many books are available on this subject (scientific texts, hmmm...). As with Russian. And, last but not least, Hebrew as well. If had reason to use Danish, I would - but so far... [Then again, I don't know that Finnish book shops have to offer, so I'm begin subjective here.]
- So, if anyone should have reason
to like, to love Norwegian, tell me about it - I need the inspiration to tackle this Gyldendal røde Ordboger...
- So, if anyone should have reason
- I became interested in Russian after watching the playthrough of "The X-files: Resist or Serve". And "The X-files: The game." Russian never looked this cool on walls! Or in ship logs. The mystique, once more.
- So - what do we need? DVD's, grammar books, dictionaries, and YouTube, and fiction. BUT, most of all - reason to like the language.
- And, what do you like? What are your interests?
- Do you like zombie/science fiction/apocalypse/distopia part-graphic novels for teens? Then try this one: https://play.google.com/store/books/details/Jaco_Jacobs_Virus?id=P9IsDwAAQBAJ
| Afrikaans | English |
|---|---|
| 'n Week gelede was Jake nog 'n doodgewone sewentienjarige. Nou is hy een van die enigste oorlewendes in 'n verwoeste stad. Daarom vat hy die pad op soek na sy pa. Maar na die uitbreek van die virus is die wêreld 'n vreemde, skrikwekkende plek waar gevaar om elke draai skuil en waar jy nooit seker is wie jy kan vertrou nie. | A week ago Jake was still the ordinary seventeen-year-old. Now he is among [lit. one of the] the only survivors left in a ruined city. That's why he hits [lit. take] the road to find his dad. But after the outbreak of the virus, the world became a strange, terrifying place where danger lurks [lit. hides] around every corner and you can never be sure whom you can trust. |
- You don't have to buy it - just get the feel of it (page through the first pages).
- Now, about Alan Walker.
- Remember, as with German and Dutch, if someone was born it is
- (de) "Ich bin geboren" or
- (nl) "Ik ben geboren" - literally "I am born".
- Therefore, in Afrikaans, because everything is "is", like the "er" in Danish or Norwegian, it is:
- (af) Ek is gebore.
- Therefore, in Afrikaans, because everything is "is", like the "er" in Danish or Norwegian, it is:
- (de) "Er ist geboren" and
- (nl) "Hij is geboren" is, of course, "He was born", and so it is in Afrikaans:
- (af) Hy is gebore".
- Why? Because "is" / "ist" is the "passive form" and perfect tense of "Sein" / "zijn" / "wees".
- Here is your homework: correct it, please.
- I know there are many people out there writing in Afrikaans "Hy was gebore"... but that is impossible, and a crude anglicism, except if you follow the same logic of Schrödinger's cat.
- But what about: "I wasn't even born yet"?
- Now you can say:
- (af) "Ek was toe nog nie eens gebore nie";
- (de) "Ich war noch (gar) nicht geboren".
- (nl) "Toen was ik nog niet geboren",
- To help myself with German and English, I've created the following verb tables ( https://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werkwoordstyd_in_Afrikaans#Wes-Germaanse_tydstabelle ).
- Just note the following:
- 1. Don't follow the rules too strictly.
- Afrikaans doesn't like passive forms in the spoken language(s - dialects). AT ALL.
- But in the academic language, to avoid the "I" (ek), the "we" (ons), the "our" (ons), thus, to be objective as possible, you do sometimes NEED to use the passive form. Most students at university still don't understand this when writing an essay.
- And Afrikaans isn't Latin or Russian following the paradigma to the letter.
- "The ball was kicked by me" sounds absolutely lame in spoken Afrikaans: "Die bal is deur my geskop".
- We would rather say: "Ek het die bal geskop" ["I kicked the ball."]. Simple past tense. What was done, was done.
- The only problem now is: "When"? "Was the action completed"?
- 2. In most Afrikaans fictional books, we only use the "historic present", but most of the time, it would be the "present tense" in the "active" and "direct" sentences. Obviously, the reader is immediately engaged with the events taking place in the text.
- E.g.
- Hy hoes en maak die deur oop.
- "He coughs and opens the door",
- instead of "He coughed and opened the door". Why? Otherwise you would have to write it in the past tense: "Hy het gehoes en [het] [toe] die deur oopgemaak." Very longwinded, exhausting and irritating.
- A Dutch critic (Rob Antonissen) wasn't very happy the way Afrikaans works, and most Dutch translators also don't know whether they should switch to the "simple past tense" or stay with the "present tense".
- If you have any more questions... you know what to do. Suidpunt (kontak) 15:05, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry for a late answer, and thank you very much for your comments and tips. I actually read your reply around the time we last spoke, but unfortunately ended up never replying back. It's very common for me to forget about or postpone all kinds of stuff, especially when I am busy with school.
- Yeah, what you are telling about this pupil sounds very natural. Being surrounded by native speakers is a big advantage when learning a new language; that's the way I've learnt all the four languages I am somewhat fluent in. Even though I've never spoken English in my daily life, I've mostly learnt it on the Internet by reading news, articles and other texts - not by actually trying to memorize words and grammar rules. The Norwegian school is also focusing more on intuitive learning by actually using the language in natural settings, which I think is very good, rather than trying to learn it in a systematic way, which is the case here in Finland.
- But of course, the older you become the more difficult it becomes to learn a new language, so if you want to do so at a later stage, it's necessary to "learn how to learn" new languages. I don't really have that much experience on that by now. However, I'm going to continue my German studies from 2015–2017 in February, and from there I'm possibly going to have three German lessons every week for over two years, which will be very interesting.
- When it comes to Afrikaans it's of course a bit more challenging as it's not possible to study it (and not Dutch either) at my school, and there are less learning resources available in general. The good thing is that my Norwegian, English and German skills are a big benefit. The reason why I'm interested in learning Afrikaans is mostly the history of Afrikaners/Boers – and the fact that I think Afrikaans (and Dutch) just sounds nice. I'm quite interested in politics, history, etc. and in the last months (especially in August–October) I've been reading quite a bit about African history and also the current situation, mostly focusing on the southernmost part; Namibia, Botswana, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and South Africa. I also like to check out songs in different languages, including historical songs from the areas I'm reading about, so I've listened to quite a few Afrikaans songs too.
- I've never really used to read fictional books, which may be a little surprising in terms of my personality. However, it might be interesting to try out an Afrikaans book like the one you mentioned, and it would definitely be very useful if I really want to learn Afrikaans. It's just the fact that my motivation to do different things varies super much from day to day; I never do almost anything regularly (other than school work). Therefore it's not so easy to predict what's going to happen to my interest for Afrikaans and Afrikaans studies in the future.
- I'm also very thankful for the grammar tips and explanations, I don't have anything special to comment/ask about them - not now, at least. I can also remember that when I first read your comment about the "is"/"was" thing, I realized that I had meant to write "is" instead of war, but for some reason I had ended up writing "was". Nevertheless, I've changed it now, and I also understand why.
- I think that's everything for now, I'll give a sound if I have any questions. We'll see how my Afrikaans hobby will evolve in the future. :) --Gálaniitoluodda (kontak) 21:35, 11 Desember 2018 (UTC)
Liefde vir Afrikaans
wysigGoeiemôre jong, van my kant af wil ek net sê baie dankie! Ek is dankbaar vir jou belangstelling in Afrikaans en waardeer dit opreg. Dit is ongelooflik om te dink dat persone van so ver as Finland 'n liefde vir Afrikaans kan ontwikkel en daarin belangstel, en dat Afrikaans se takkies so ver strek! Ek wens net ons Afrikaners en Afrikaanses in SA kon dieselfde doen ten opsigte van ander tale, maar ons is juis hier in ons eie vaderland in 'n stryd om ons geliefde taal se behoud en vooruitgang gewikkel. Persone soos jy is 'n regte aanwins vir ons wedersyds-geliefde taal en vir Wikipedia in geheel, en ek wens jou alle voorspoed en genot toe hier op die Afrikaanse Wikipedia!
Kimi Räikkönen en Mika Häkkinen is by verre my gunsteling Finne:)
Tervehdys! – Hierdie ongetekende kommentaar is deur Charlielv55 (Bespreking • Bydraes) gelewer.
- Goeienaand en baie dankie vir jou boodskap! Ja, dis interessant dat die wêreld deesdae so klein is. Ek dink dis belangrik dat julle Afrikaners jul taal behou, want dis 'n baie mooi taal wat ook 'n unieke geskiedenis het. Dankie vir jou mooi woorde, en groete uit Finland! --Gálaniitoluodda (kontak) 17:06, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
- En as ek foute maak, moenie bang wees om my foute reg te stel nie. Ek sal baie gelukkig wees om beter in Afrikaans te word. :) --Gálaniitoluodda (kontak) 17:31, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Afrikaans in Europa
wysigHallo daar in Finland! Baie interessant om ander Europeërs hier op die Afrikaanse Wikipedia sien werk. Ek bly in Duitsland en leer Afrikaans met hierdie Wikipedia aan. Dit maak eintlik net sin. Laasjaar, toe ons tydens die Wikimania in Kaapstad was, wou ek heeltyd net Afrikaans besig. Engels kan ek mos maar in Londen praat. Ek hoop, jy geniet jou tyd hier. Van die Afrikaanssprekendes hier help graag met taalgebruik. Groete. -- 
SpesBona 10:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
- Hallo en dankie vir jou boodskap! Ja, ek stem saam. Dis interessant dat 'n mens Wikipedia kan gebruik om tale aan te leer. Dit lyk asof dit baie goed vir jou gewerk het. Groete uit Finland, --Gálaniitoluodda (kontak) 17:20, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
- Ja, en ek leer nog steeds. My Afrikaans is nou 'n bietjie "Suid-Afrika-getoets", as ek dit só kan stel. Die uitspraak is egter die moeilikste stap, want die diftonge is 'n bietjie anders. En daar kan ek vir jou Radio Sonder Grense aanbeveel. Ek skakel elke dag in en wysig gelyktydig hier. Jy hoor dan Afrikaans, skryf Afrikaans en begin ook in Afrikaans dink. Gelyktydig luister jy na lekker Afrikaanse musiek en kry nuus uit Suid-Afrika. Dis mos 'n nuwe horison vir Europeërs! Swat jy Afrikaans op universiteit? Hoop maar net ons kry meer en meer mense wat Afrikaans aanleer en dan hier begin skryf. Groete. --
SpesBona 21:30, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
- Ja, en ek leer nog steeds. My Afrikaans is nou 'n bietjie "Suid-Afrika-getoets", as ek dit só kan stel. Die uitspraak is egter die moeilikste stap, want die diftonge is 'n bietjie anders. En daar kan ek vir jou Radio Sonder Grense aanbeveel. Ek skakel elke dag in en wysig gelyktydig hier. Jy hoor dan Afrikaans, skryf Afrikaans en begin ook in Afrikaans dink. Gelyktydig luister jy na lekker Afrikaanse musiek en kry nuus uit Suid-Afrika. Dis mos 'n nuwe horison vir Europeërs! Swat jy Afrikaans op universiteit? Hoop maar net ons kry meer en meer mense wat Afrikaans aanleer en dan hier begin skryf. Groete. --